Living nightmare

The gamekeeper had no right to shoot the dog even if it was 'worrying cattle'. Surely that's the farmer's desicion? More likely it was disturbing pheasants if anything, in which case the gamekeeper had no legal right to shoot it because 'game' birds are not considered livestock. His actions seemed illegal to me and he should have been punished. It's illegal to shoot dogs to protect 'game' birds right LACS?

Surely it would have been more sensible for the gamekeeper to have informed either a dog warden or the family themselves if he was able to catch the dog (I'm assuming it had a tag). There are too many people with guns that are shooting animals and getting away with it. It's time for some laws to be changed surely?

This is an absolutely horrendous act,and although I agree the gamekeeper had no right to shoot the dog (unless he is also the landowner)and should be prosecuted,do you have any proof at all steven for your assumptions regarding the real reason for the shooting of the dog,or are you simply tryng to implicate the gamekeeper to satisfy your own agenda? You may in fact be correct,but do you have any proof?If not,then do you not think your reactions are possibly why legislators cannot take LACS claims seriously in some cases?

This is a really sad story, loses your faith in human kind to be honest...i cant even begin to imagine what the family is going through right now, the sad thing is is the fact people are repeatedly getting away with this kind of things, if someone did that to another human they would get life inprisonment but they probably didnt even bat an eye lid at this case, again seeing animals as just obects? this needs to be sorted, it needs to be treated a lot more seriously.

No charges! ( as usual). Surely it would not harm to publish this nice man's name, and then the whole country would have the opportunity to express their opinions of his methods to him. (either personally or by letter)

This only shows up once again how one form of violent abuse of animals lends itself to others. These shooting folk or their gamekeepers dump piles of gamebirds in pits and leave foxes trapped and dying terrible slow deaths - this man though it right and proper to shoot someone's pet and stuff it in a burrow on a poor pretext. We certainly need to make an example of him - and make a stand against gun sports.

This story is shocking! If Farmers and their nominated persons are to have the right to protect live stock with force such as this then they must carry out all the required responcibilities, ie inform the Police within 24 hours. This man failed in that duty and should be charged accordingly. Steven - If the Gamekeeper has the expressed permission of the Farmer to protect his livestock then he is legally allowed to do so. Also if you read the act regarding the protection of Livestock you will see that there is a definition of that term, in which game birds ARE included, thus giving him the right to protect them. I also note that there has been no comment from LACS on this blog regarding the dog shooting incident that occured in Hartsthorne, Derbyshire a few weeks ago.

how far was the dog from its home?

Dear Miss Katherine Watson,do you know for a FACT that gamebirds are dumped in piles in pits?If so be so kind as to pass on the source of your information and I will pass it on to the shooting press media. Do you know ALL the facts regarding this awful case?Were the owners present when the dog was shot?If not,how do they know it was shot at point blank range ?Was it dumped on private or public land? It is indeed a terribly sad story,but if the person resonsible has committed an offence then why haven't the police pressed charges?Lack of evidence?Or was he acting with the full consent of the landowner?The police must know surely.

If a responsible person found it necessary to kill a dog, surely they would be obliged to notify the populace in the area? that he burried the dog shows he wanted to hide the fact. In my experience killers in the countryside just like the power of killing, leaving the corpse to encourage other lives .. more.to kill

In your experience M Stoneman?Of what? Judging by your posts you have no experience of what you talk,but insist on posting inflammatory and innaccurate drivel at every opportunity.Unbelievable! With supporters such as you it is no surprise that LACS appear to be struggling.Unbelievable!

M Stoneman, your post blatantly highlights that your experience is very limited.

Eddie FACT- Sir Edward Dashwood (who happens to be the former chairman of Countryside Alliance shooting campaign) His gamekeepers received court action for wildlife crimes after evidence that shot game was buried and dumped was obtained on Dashwoods estate in 2006. The leagues investigators discovered a purpose built burial pit. In a country life editorial in 2001 they admitted this is what happens, they said and I quote " over-supply has led to shoots give away their bags or worse still bury their surplus" unquote. Eddie please pass this on to "the shooting Media" but you just might find they know of this already, shame you are not as up to date on your FACTS Eddie, and coming on here asking for facts here is another a certain Tim Bonner head of media for the CA wrote in a letter to the Daily Telegraph that every bird shot in Britain goes into the food chain ? This is a is such a false statement if ever there was one ! When challenged he failed to produce any evidence to support this. I see you are having a go at the leagues supporters again Eddie ! Where is your FACTS that the "LACS appear to be struggling" ? Unbelievable !

Matthew- Game birds are only included if they are being kept on the land in enclosures but not if they have been released as they are then classed as wild.

Sheryl- Strangely enough I already know that, but it is at least refreshing to see that at least some LACS supporters actually take the time to read current legislation. A shame not all follow your shining example. However the article on this website clearly states that: 1) the dog "had been worrying cattle" 2) the incident occurred August So from that it is entirely plausible that Pheasants were either not involved in this incident or depending on how the shoot was organized, the birds could still have been in the release pens. Which as you have already confirmed would see them classified as Livestock.

Matthew strangely enough I already knew all this too ! Pheasants are released in August to September ready for the shoot. so it is entirely plausible they were not in release pens but wild ! I am not saying game birds were involved Matthew just putting a fact across that you missed out that's all !

Hi Sheryl.It's good to see you're doing your homework sheryl,but you still can't help distorting the facts to suit your argument can you?You make it sound as though the 'keepers received 'court action' as a result of burying shot game in pits by using the statement 'received court action for wildlife crimes AFTER evidence was obtained' regarding the burial of shot game in 2006 according to your post.Two of Dashwoods employees were found guilty of wildlife crimes in 2005,and another in 1998,in both instances you'll find precede 2006. You claim LACS found evidence of a 'purpose built burial pit',and I seem to recall some Daily Mail photo's of a pile of birds,are these the ones you are referring to? Also,who are the 'they' in your reference to a 2001 Country Life editorial? 'They admitted'.Who are you quoting sheryl;the editors of the magazine,LACS,or the CA? As regards LACS struggling.Didn't they once have a membership of about 18,000,which by 2007 had dropped to around 5,000?I don't know what the membership figure is now,but no doubt you can boost it by adding 'supporters'.Is there a difference? Hasn't LACS made reduncancies,and sold four of its sanctuaries last year,with more to come?Hardly sounds like it's thriving to me. I only 'have a go' at those people who spout misinformation and garbage in an attempt to further their cause sheryl.But without misinformation and bias some of LACS supporters wouldn't have much to say.

Eddie I am not distorting any facts at all ? But when you look at the distorted and wrong facts you have given like the one you stated where birds that have been shot and flapping about on the ground are dead and only going through involuntary electric muscle spasms but are not flapping about the ground in absolute agony ! This was so distorted Eddie as I and many others have seen LIVE birds flapping about in agony after they have been shot. What about the one where you stated only shooting happens in the winter months ? Laughable that and I have never got over how wrong you were on that fact Eddie you the big fact man. How about the fact you shoot only to eat but then go on about shooting foxes ? Then make a statement you like all forms of shooting. Make your mind up. You obviously do not know what an editorial means Eddie here is what it means- An editorial is an opinion piece written by the senior editorial staff or publisher of a newspaper or magazine. Editorials are usually unsigned and may be supposed to reflect the opinion of the periodical. In the UK, these unsigned columns are known as "leading articles". So when I speak of "they" this is they Eddie. Where do you get your figures about the LACS membership ? Where did you get the redundancy information from ? Where did you get the four sanctuaries that were sold from ? How can you say this with no real facts or basis then say it hardly sounds like it's thriving ? You only have a go at those people who what Eddie ?....... Also laughable after what you have just spouted to attempt to further your cause but without which you would not have much more to say.

Here you go again sheryl,distorting the things I have said.GAME BIRD shooting takes place in the autumn and winter months,but I shoot all manner of things,all year round.Have a look in your local abottoir sheryl to see how freshly killed creatures react,you clearly have no idea of what you're talking.Wounded and dying birds will make for cover or simply remain motionless unless pursued(by a dog for instance). I have NEVER stated I shoot ONLY to eat sheryl,and I know of no-one who eats foxes,or rats for that matter.Get a grip! I know what an editorial is sheryl,but you still haven't answered any of the points I raised,why is that?Am I surprised?No. I'll answer yours though sheryl. I gathered information about LACS from an article in the 'Shooting Times'.No doubt you will claim it is in that magazines interest to print such stories about LACS,but if you can prove the facts are false,and show me the true facts,then let me know,and I'll let the editor know.

Back on topic;a Tayside police spokesman has stated:'Both the post-mortem and the vet's statement noted that there was no unnecessary suffering and,as such,no offence was committed'. I am not condoning the act,nor the callous attempt at burial,but emotions cannot rule over realities I'm afraid.

Eddie tut tut, here is the proof you have just distorted your own words from the "right royal shame" blog as this is what you said and I quote .... "we don't damage any flowers as the game season is conducted through the winter months when flowers etc are laying dormant,sometimes under about a foot of snow! " unquote. So you have just stated above you said something different and have just distorted your words for all to see. We all know the game season starts on the so called "glorious twelfth" in August Eddie so game shooting is "conducted" from that date. You never said game birds either !! Laughable yet again. Here you go again about the abattoirs I suppose you will ask us all to have a look on your favourite you tube again to look at the "head shot rabbits jumping around like Olympic gymnasts" as you put it. This is very warped. I have seen with MY OWN eyes birds ALIVE and writhing about in pain from a shoot ! How many times do I have to state this fact. You are either lying or do not care to look to see if they are dead. As for getting your information from the "shooting Times" well Eddie that is even funnier than getting stuff from the CA. YES, I would think this could be biased propaganda Eddie. You stated these things so it is you who needs to prove these claims not me. You always put these claims in question form but we all know you do this to suggest these things you say are true. Why not send an email to The League asking them for the membership numbers etc, then you can get the answers straight from the horses mouth instead of leaving posts without getting the official facts and figures first ? You tell me to get a grip ? dear me you were asking who "they" were so if you knew what an editorial was you would not of had to ask such a question would you, laughable yet again. You stated you are a meat eater Eddie and this is the only justification you need to shoot ! Well then that is no justification if you shoot other animals you do not eat. You also said you "ENJOY shooting in all it's forms" Quoted from you from the "countryside wars" blog. So this would involve killing animals for sport. Rather an arrogant thing to say and it again shows you think it is your right to shoot anything you see fit for reasons other than to eat and also enjoy the killing too ! I have asked you on numerous occasions what you call your shooting of animals as you said you don't class it as sport and I have never had an answer off you ? But you said you enjoy it whatever you class your killing of animals as.

Dear god sheryl,we're going round and round in circles here!Your posts are becoming less and less coherent as we go on.It is clear to anyone sheryl that under scrutiny your claims do not stand up,and the fact that you simply resort to counter accusations to each of my posts rather than answer questions,and the failure of any refuting of statements I make from LACS,speaks volumes. I responded with answers to all your questions about my 'neighbours',the anti who accompanies us on some shoots,and the fact I regard the shooting of a creature as 'killing',and not sport,as others regard it,and that I have NEVER(despite you believing the contrary)complained to any site administrators or ANYONE about you or any other person on this site.It wasn't posted for some reason despite me attempting three times to post it.Do you honestly believe I wouldn't respond to a post from you? I visit quite a few shooting websites sheryl,and am just as vehement about falsehoods and misinformation on them as I am on this one,so don't take it too personally.

What is laughable is that this supposed open blog is selective in the posts it publishes! Yet again when a NON LACS supporters posts facts and figures that make LACS look as bad as they are it ends up on the editors floor. Still no surprise.

It is very difficult to get facts and figures onto this blog. Especially when said facts & figures put LACS in a bad light.

Well I never expected anything else off you really Eddie than to skirt over the facts I mention about the things you have said such as the shooting season, you tried to twist the words you said to try to "save face" it's all there for all to see. So you call it "killing" and not sport, so you are going out for a days killing. It looks like you do a lot of it for pest control but have never stated it in those words either. You say you "ENJOY all forms of shooting" that includes sport as that's what takes place as one of those forms. But here is the thing Eddie maybe you need to look into the commercial shoots that do do it for sport, like how many big bags they can get, who can shoot the most etc. The badness that goes on and around these shoots have been denied by you, you say these things do not happen but yet the proof is out there for all to see and the magazines that follow this sport have written very open comments about how the commercial shoots are bringing the small wild game shoots into disrepute. You can not cover the real facts of how disgusting this "sport" is Eddie you never will. You are a man who enjoys killing, trapping and god knows what else to these little creatures but there are even bigger cruelties out there with this sport and you have denied these happen I think you need to start owning up to the cruel commercial industries faults this would maybe help your cause and statements that you just shoot to eat ? But I for one do not like what you do for your kicks it's a real shame there are folk out here that feel they have to kill for enjoyment. Rather sick. Matthew there are plenty of posts on these blogs that have been posted that try to make the League look bad. They have posted plenty of them. This could be just the pro's saying this ? Because I have seen on your "shootinguk" plenty of proof the posts from people against your "sport" have been deleted as your friends leave very negative comments on there !

Matthew I tried to post a reply on here two days ago but it was not posted and this has happened a couple of times to me so it is not just non League supporters posts that do not get posted. They have their reasons i'm sure but if you look at other blogs there are posts they allow that do try to put the League in a bad light ! I have seen your "shootinguk" site and they delete posts from non supporters and leave offensive comments from your friends about "anti's" so at least here they do allow posts from pro's and allow them to have their say !

Eddie lets put it this way then if you find me incoherent , in reply to my post about shooters damaging wild flowers you put and I quote yet again - "we don't damage any flowers as the game season is conducted through the winter months when flowers etc are laying dormant,sometimes under about a foot of snow! " .....This was a blatant lie Eddie ! This was said by you to further your cause and yet again deny what goes on around these shoots. You go on and on about true facts Eddie but look at your untruths and denials when I bring up facts about your pastime of killing. I read an awful lot about these commercial shoots and the more I learn the more I despise them. I even have had conversations with shooters who shoot wild game and they are appalled at the way the birds are bred and the way these shoots are conducted. You have not once said you are upset by these shoots bringing the wild shoots in to disrepute, instead you have continually denied the damage they are doing. So from this it shows you support these commercial "sporting" shoots and all that goes with them. The only time you are honest Eddie is when it suits you and your cause.

Due to these posts not been posted for a few days after sending I have wrote twice thinking mine were not going to be left.

Sheryl Shooting UK do allow post from Antis on their blog and we (as a blogging community) actually look forward to being able to put right all their misinformed ideas. However all such people that have been on the site recently have all followed the same path of disagreeing with what other people say (which is allowed), making wild false assertions about these past times, not replying to direct questions that are asked of them then finally resorting to personally insulting comments at which point their accounts are suspended and removed. It is also common practice for 'supporters' to be asked if they agree with the banning of a particular member and on some occasions the membership do not agree and have voted to restore such accounts. This differs greatly from your assertion that they delete posts from non supporters, but I suppose that you were to busy reading about big commercial shoots to notice that. - I am sure that LACS web team do have their reasons for not publishing all posts, namely to keep information off their website that would show how bad they really are, how small they are or the double standards that exist with the organization. Suffice to say that I remain unconvinced that it was mere chance that a comment I posted containing details of membership numbers and property sales was excluded from the website.

Matthew take the "go vegan" thread on "shootinguk" and it shows that someone has tried to debate with you all and there are no posts to show apart from quotes by this person used by you all to actually show nothing but disrespect for someone else's opinion. The patronising comments are there for all to see. There are plenty more in the same vein on other forum discussions. Maybe I am busy with reading about commercial shoots but I will always find the time to read the posts on other websites too Matthew and the more I read on your forums the more I really do not agree with what you all do and do not like your attitudes to killing animals. Tell me Matthew what information are you privy to that the League keeps off their website that would show how bad they really are ? Eddie had his posted on the membership numbers etc. so why do they need yours too ? You both come on here to try and justify your behaviour and pastime by spouting this info you get off pro shooting sites with no real facts or evidence to this and to be honest it really does not matter to me the membership numbers etc. as I will carry on with my fight against cruelty used in these sports you all follow !

Oh and Matthew here is a little something one of your moderators said on a thread as an answer to a couple of shooters on "shootinguk" who kept asking him to delete the posts from a non supporter, and I quote - "I would delete all the anti's if I could and indeed do so most of the time but I can only do so much with this current system so often my hands are tied" These people also said and I quote-"In fact, you moderators, it's time to ban the antis. We are here to enjoy our sport and talk to other like minded individuals. We do not want to be having to spend our time fending off these (swear word) all the time. If this was a mung bean and lentil forum most of us would have been banned a long time ago...Sort it out" Well Matthew it shows it's your friends using the insults and expletives on "shootinguk" and bang goes your argument about non supporters being welcome on your site, It's there in black and white !

Sheryl I am sure that you have dug through the website long and hard to find you 'little something' examples, but you do seam to have missed out the other side of the story. Namley that people who hold similar beliefs to yourself go on their and in a very short space of time are posting derogetary personal insults. Though as they hold the same beliefs as you that is OK. You are hardly in a position to criticise as you routinley use inflamatory language towards myself and Eddie not to mention miss quote us and spout so called facts based on very little evidence. But hey I suppose that is ok as it makes you think you are achieving something.

Matthew..... please if you are going to try to communicate to me would you please try to learn how to use the English language in the correct form it is meant to be in ! You also have just rambled through a post which has no truth, facts or backbone to debate with either ! I am achieving something Matthew...... I'm showing you up to not be capable to have any rational debate on your pastime and beliefs, also that you have not done your sport any favours with some of your posts. I have found plenty on "shootinguk" Matthew, even the old Mr Eddie Potts saying "our sport" when he has vigorously denied he calls his pastime a sport ! Not a misquote Matthew please have a look on the forum with the title "the shooting community is an inclusive one" his post dated 12/08/11 there in his own words Matthew. Look at his other posts on here where he denies he calls it a sport. He tells lies to further his cause. Now Matthew could you please tell me what "inflammatory language" and "misquotes" I have routinely used against you and Mr Eddie Potts ?